Matt..Connecting issue

Dan-TSS · Post by **Dan-TSS** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:24 pm

i've added you to the forums

the error you are getting is becuase the ROM image isn't matching the board properly

try using the Z31_VG30_E_16K.adr file for address and use one of the supplied image files to upload to the romulator and then try again

Here is more information...
I have gone through the different provided address files and tried all of them with the '88 federal n/a image..and still no connect. I get the same error over and over.(should I try a different image file with the Z31_VG30_E_16K.adr file?..if so which one?)
*I plugged the ecu into a known running car and was able to get the car to start and run(idled roughly though, as the car was an '88t and the ecu is/was '88n/a). I tried a brand new laptop and that isn't the issue either, same error message.
~A question for you. I have not yet recieved my pocket romulator yet, I am merely connecting to the ecu with the USB cable and with everything selected properly, clicking "consult" with no good result. Does this effect things? I was merely trying to verify that I am good to go by trying to connect to the ecu. Almost everything I read thus far mentions the romulator. This is the newer set-up.(NVRAM REV B chip)
I have been reading alot on here and am kind of unfamiliar with what to try next. Some of the information I am finding doesn't make much sense to me because I am new. Please take me through baby steps of what to do next. It won't hurt my feelings becuase I am not a computer expert, and appreciate the help of making sure I have things the way they need to be rather than taking certian settings for granted.(in other words assume that I am an idiot and have made simple mstakes)
I am at your mercy.
I have a very expensive build that I am needing to tune here shortly and if I am unsuccessful with Nistune.....than I very well may be doomed and in alot of trouble! I still have other work still to do to the car, but am now very concerned and am spending an hour or so every night trying to resolve these problems I have found.

Stinky · Post by **Stinky** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:23 pm

Which base code did Matt send preprogrammed on the ecu? Your board has the nvram chip on it correct?

Dan-TSS · Post by **Dan-TSS** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:59 pm

yes, Nvram REV B(C) 2005, 2006 says "tested ok" on it.
THe ecu was/is an '88n/a fed. auto.
The oem chip is placed in the socket next to the nvram chip.
When I was trying, I was using the 16k address file and the '88n/a fed. auto image file.
No romulator..just USB from the ecu to the laptop.
Yes, USB Consult was selected.(I'm thinking that would be the next question you'd ask)
I'll get some time tommorow to tinker some more with it.....

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:46 am

Okay attached is a pic of the installation, since I like to keep photos of new installs for my documentaition

The picture has the both jumpers X2,X4 in the 1-2 position which means its configured for a romulator. Is that still current?

How is this running in the car currently? What chip is plugged into the board. Is it an EPROM or NVRAM chip, since you dont have a romulator yet...

Its been a while since I sent the board and if it was an NVRAM part most likely could need a firmware update also (I finished up patch revision 10 two nights ago). Can you tell me the part number of the NVRAM (STK11C88/STK15C88) if its printed on there?

Have you had a chance to buzz out the lines from the 6802 chip to the ECU as per my email? You will need to remove the hotglue to do that but I dont think thats the problem. However unfortunately I have found that some of the crimping on the older plugs didn't work properly so now I solder all the crimp connections

The problem you are getting is becuase the ECU is not sending data to the PC over the USB port. This can occur because
(a) the ROM image address does not match your board image (F700)
(b) the lines from the ECU to the board are incorrectly wired or there is a connection problem with the cables (the car will still run on RevB boards but NIStune will not receive data). I soldered in those cables for you and tested them so that should be fine, but just check they connect okay
(c) if you are using NVRAM, it could be corrupted for some reason and needs to be reprogrammed. For a STK15C88 I have instructions for reprogramming with a Willem programmer (do you have one of these programmers?)

Worst case, I shoot you across another board for NVRAM version depending on what you have now for you to try out with the latest version on there, so we can get you up and running soon. Older patch revisions for NVRAM had corruption problems. I've got a 'golden' revision 10 which works on all types of ecus now (R31,Z31,S13,J30 etc)

Documents here:
http://home.aanet.com.au/nistune/reg.html

Please check Section 4 of the NIStune_Diagnostics_Document.pdf about image running but not communicating with PC since this is the problem you are having. I've just updated this tonight to target diagnosising this problem. Please download load the latest version

Your PC is fine if you are getting 'no communications error' it means it found your USB device so your driver installation appears fine, its definately something on the ECU side of things. Once I know how you go with section 4 we can proceed from there

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:13 am

okay im doing a another test tonight with these files attached

1. Load Z31_VG30_128_E.adr into nistune
2. Load Z31_VG30_1998_SS_nt.bin into nistune
3. Emulator connect
4. Operations - Emulator upload
5. ECU starts working after this and can start engine
6. USB consult connect

I get ECU 23700-00000 PREV: 10 and all happy

this is with a board in romulator mode.

if using an EPROM you must use a 32K image and program the TOP half (4000-7FFF)

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:18 am

attachments

Dan-TSS · Post by **Dan-TSS** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:02 am

Well,
I'm out of commission for a little.
I carefully pulled the(oem chip) from the socket and when I went to re-install it, one of the pins bent and broke.
The information as to what nvram chip it is in there...
I don't know what to tell you. I removed the Nistune sticker to look and none of the numbers match up to what you described.
*edited..I think I am catching on/learning...The nvram chip is the size of the oem chip, but operates and looks different?>>>I don't think I have this if this is what nvram is all about.*
I have another chip that was burnt for another '88n/a ecu that was socketed. I also have 4 ecus coming back from moates that were sent out for socketing. I can grab...with more care this time...a chip from one of those ecus and plug it into this nistune ecu to try and get farther.
I am saying this, so you know where I am currently at with it.
*I have read now two times the things you posted Matt, and I have to be honest with you....it is alot of information that I am having a difficult time understanding.
After I post this, I plan to read, and re-read, and read again what you said to try to understand it.
I have not unglued anything from the ecu. It is the way you had it.
I'm going to take a big breathe and try to understand. I'm a virgin when it comes to all these terms.
How can I tell if this board is set-up for romulator mode?
*Edited..ok, I now understand what you were talking about for the jumpers on the nistune board....yes, they are the same as you have pictured.*

Dan-TSS · Post by **Dan-TSS** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:21 am

Matt wrote:okay im doing a another test tonight with these files attached

1. Load Z31_VG30_128_E.adr into nistune
2. Load Z31_VG30_1998_SS_nt.bin into nistune
3. Emulator connect
4. Operations - Emulator upload
5. ECU starts working after this and can start engine
6. USB consult connect

I get ECU 23700-00000 PREV: 10 and all happy

this is with a board in romulator mode.

if using an EPROM you must use a 32K image and program the TOP half (4000-7FFF)

I'm assuming that these are the steps you are taking...example:
step #1 Load Z31_VG30_128_E.adr into nistune and then step#2, etc.
*I do not understand step #3.
You must Emulate once these first two steps are done?
Remember, all that is installed in the ecu is the stock chip and I have no romulator currently connected.
Where are you seeing this after you go through these steps I assume I am supposed to take?...I get ECU 23700-00000 PREV: 10 and all happy
I hope you can see I have alot of learning to do and alot of new vocabulary to learn too.
*This 1" by 1" chip that is installed on the Nistune board says on it
XIL
XC9572
PC84AMM050
F1347835A
10C

Stinky · Post by **Stinky** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:39 am

Dan,
If that's the chip you are currently running in the ecu it's no wonder you can't connect. The large square chip on the nistune board is not the nvram. The nvram is the same size and shape as the stock chip. The nvram chip should be in the socket that the stock chip is in on your picture. Did Matt send you another chip or was another chip installed in the nistune board when you got it? The reason you can't connect to nistune is because the stock chip, which is currently installed on the board, does not have the nistune patch code added to it that is required for nistune communication. At this point you need one of two things. To get connected you need to either install a romulator or a properly programmed nvram chip in place of the stock chip thats on the nistune board.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:23 pm

Dan

Sorry, its a lot of information to process.

The nvram chip is the size of the oem chip, but operates and looks different?>>>I don't think I have this if this is what nvram is all about

From memory you requested a romulator version of the NIStune board because that was what Jason suggested. So the board should be exactly the same as in the picture. You need a pocket romulator or specially burnt EPROM image to use the board.

XC9572
PC84AMM050

I carefully pulled the(oem chip) from the socket and when I went to re-install it, one of the pins bent and broke.

The 84 pin square chip is called a PLD chip. This is not the NVRAM chip. Which leg did you break off of it? It might not matter as half of them aren't used. Otherwise I can send you another PLD chip

For NVRAM boards, these have a 28 pin STK chip plugged into the NIStune board. Its the same sizeof chip as your factory EPROM chip

I can grab...with more care this time...a chip from one of those ecus and plug it into this nistune ecu to try and get farther.

This wont work. You need to programmed EPROM chip with the Nistune image posted here in it just to get consult working .... or wait for your romulator to arrive and program the NIStune image into that so you can do realtime tuning

Dan-TSS · Post by **Dan-TSS** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:05 am

Ok...things are making better sense now.
Matt, I did not break anything off from the PLD chip...
The factory EPROM chip that was installed is the chip that I broke a leg off from. (I managed to successfully remove and plug in a "programmed EPROM" that has/or should have the exact same information on it from another ecu that I have here. I know that it is a "programmed EPROM", as it looks different and has different numbering on it..plus the clear section in the middle of it for erasing it. I verified that it works by testing it in the same '88t that we verified the Nistune ecu originally worked on, same results. This chip was from an ecu that had the same features, yr./make/model/etc. Again, sorry for my lack of proper vocabulary..)
Jason is coming out to stay and learn/teach/tune with me on Oct. 27,28, 29, and 30th.
He is telling me that as a worst case scenario, he can get the car to where it needs to be using live edit and the romulator alone(just isn't nearly as easy as with the Nistune software and map tracing)
**I will be alot more knowledgeable of everything after this occurs.
~Matt, what should I do at this point in time?
Would it be wise for me to "ask" and pay you for an NVRAM chip. I know Jason is excited to see it, and I (due to my lack of experience and knowledge) was hoping that this is what this Nistune ecu had to offer.
I know that Bryant is currently working on some things with it and progress is still being made with the NVRAM....
But from what I have learned thus far, I can always convert back to the Romulator version with some careful steps.
Suggest what I need to do and we'll do that!
*In the meantime, I am dead in the water until Jason shows up on the 26th with the equipment I had him order in for me(romulator and chips, etc)
Thanks for your patience, and it's alright if your'e laughing at me...I'm laughing at myself.

Dan

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:22 am

hey dan

I managed to successfully remove and plug in a "programmed EPROM" that has/or should have the exact same information on it from another ecu that I have here

that still wont work. what happens is that the NIStune firmware to talk from the ECU->PC needs to be patched into the ECU EPROM image and the programmed into the EPROM

what you need to do is
1. put the EPROM into an EPROM eraser and clear it
2. download the Z31_VG30_1998_SS_nt.bin from here and program that image into the EPROM

now your ECU will be running the NIStune firmware programmed in the EPROM.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:26 am

unfortuatnely i dont have any NVRAM version boards left available, and the NVRAM chips I have left are for my development efforts

once you have received the pocket romulator that will get you going. but if you program the image attached (32K will fit in a 27C256 EPROM) then that should get you working

with the NVRAM boards in future, they will arrive preprogrammed. the only job for the installer is to plug them into the socket and put the USB port and solder the wires to the CPU

Dan-TSS · Post by **Dan-TSS** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:09 am

Ok, Sounds good.
When Jason comes out, we'll get the car going using the steps you have outlined.
*I'll report back after that.
Thanks for all your help.
Dan

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:19 am

no probs. send me an email if you have any more probs once you guys start using the romulator