Timing issues

Nistune topics related specifically to the 6303 cpu

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my1path
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Re: Timing issues

Post by my1path » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:46 am

I still haven't plugged it in and run a timing light but I did load the ADR file and had a look around. Did you remove Alpha/N?

Matt
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Re: Timing issues

Post by Matt » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:17 am

This table definition was removed as it was not correct for this ECU

my1path
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Re: Timing issues

Post by my1path » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:11 am

Matt wrote:This table definition was removed as it was not correct for this ECU
Interesting, It seemed to be working just fine.
I'll just richen up a few more squares in the lower right half of my fuel map to compensate.

my1path
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Re: Timing issues

Post by my1path » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:22 pm

Compensating for alpha N turned out to be easy, in fact I like it better without it. One full throttle run with Map Trace allowed me to see where WOT maxed out at each RPM range on the Load scale and adjust accordingly.
Anyway, I hope this is the kind of information you were looking for.

Idle ~820
Temp 183F
Neutral Sw:on
TPS closed: on
Egr sol: on (new?)
Reported Timing: 20
Actual timing: 15


Idle ~820
Temp 183F
Neutral Sw:off
TPS closed: on
Egr sol: on (new?)
Reported Timing: 20
Actual timing: 14


~1200
Temp 183F
Neutral Sw:off
TPS closed: off (Throttle closed sensor rotated)
Egr sol: off (new?)
Reported Timing: 44
Actual timing: 37


~1920
Temp 183F
Neutral Sw: off
TPS closed: off (throttle opened very slightly)
Egr sol: off (new?)
Reported Timing: 45
Actual timing: 37

Also, I'm noticing "Temp Enrich" does not highlight green under any circumstance. It is warming up leaner than stock so I'm guessing it is accessing a change I made before the new ADR file was loaded. "Enrich" cold crank and warm crank do highlight green but adjusting them doesn't seem to make a difference.I am trying to set up the Temp Enrich to add more fuel when the Temps exceed 193F for additional fuel cooling.

I am also not seeing a Target Idle setting anywhere and all 4 Idle stabilization maps stay at 188 (far right of the scale) regardless of the idle speed.

Lastly, I tried running speed trials and it seemed to start just fine at the set RPM or speed but it would not stop at the desired speed. (it would be cool if you could choose speed or RPM for a stop since you can for a start)
Attachments
10;1 3.3 tune.bin
Here's the tune I was using for the above results.
(32 KiB) Downloaded 89 times

Matt
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Re: Timing issues

Post by Matt » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:05 pm

I've been looking into the M30/J30 VG30E for the last few hours. Having the same engine also means the code bases are very similar. What was previously defined as the AF Alpha table is actually used for closed loop TPS conditions
#Closed Loop
CLOSED_LOOP_TABLE_TPS_MAX,&H7600,16,1,16,1
CLOSED_LOOP_MAX_RPM,&H7FB7,1,1,1,50
CLOSED_LOOP_MAX_TP,&H7F21,1,1,1,1
CLOSED_LOOP_HIGH_GEAR_MAX_RPM,&H7EFC,1,1,1,50
CLOSED_LOOP_HIGH_GEAR_MAX_TP,&H7F81,1,1,1,1
I'm adding these to the next Nistune version (should be later this week)
"Temp Enrich" does not highlight green under any circumstance
There are over 100 tables. I've got most of them highlighting but this one is missing from the table highlight code so that has been added for that version also.
"Enrich" cold crank and warm crank do highlight green but adjusting them doesn't seem to make a difference
As a rule the cold crank is used when crank < 15 degC and warm crank >= 15 degC upto about 85 degC. Sorry not sure what that is in fareheit. It will not be used over that temperature due to hard coding in the nissan ECU

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Re: Timing issues

Post by Matt » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:14 pm

Target idle RPM setting. Add the following:
BASE_TARGET_IDLE_RPM,&H7E60,16,1,16,1,Neutral Idle RPM vs Temp

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Re: Timing issues

Post by Matt » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:27 pm

all 4 Idle stabilization maps stay at 188
Checked this out and the RPM should be 0 .. 1500rpm. I've updated these tables. Next release

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Re: Timing issues

Post by Matt » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:32 pm

Thanks for the information
RPM Temp Neutral TPS Timing Consult Timing Offset adjustment
820 83 ON ON 20 15 5
820 83 OFF ON 20 14 6
1200 83 OFF OFF 44 37 7
1920 83 OFF OFF 45 37 6
It appears that the consult timing (regardless of TPS position) is reporting 5 degrees lower than it should

Change CONSULT_TIMING_OFFSET=35 to CONSULT_TIMING_OFFSET=30 to correct your consult timing

my1path
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Re: Timing issues

Post by my1path » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:05 am

Thanks for the continuous development and support.
"Temp Enrich" does not highlight green under any circumstance
There are over 100 tables. I've got most of them highlighting but this one is missing from the table highlight code so that has been added for that version also.
In addition to not highlighting changes I make are not showing up on my AFR gauge. I am trying to set up the Temp Enrich to add more fuel when the Temps exceed 193F for additional fuel cooling. My engine will run up to 210F (99c) out here on hard drives which is fine but it begs more fuel at that temp vs when its running at 180F (82C)

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Re: Timing issues

Post by Matt » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:53 am

I am trying to set up the Temp Enrich to add more fuel when the Temps exceed 193F for additional fuel cooling. My engine will run up to 210F (99c) out here on hard drives which is fine but it begs more fuel at that temp vs when its running at 180F (82C)
That table is only used upto about 80-85degC and then is no longer used. You wont be able to add it for over this normally

The SR20 engines have an overtemp set of tables but not sure about these earliers. Would need to dig into that further to see if there is something. I have some other items to work on in the meantime but will get back to this. Putting version 1.2.7 up today with the above fixes

my1path
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Re: Timing issues

Post by my1path » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:26 pm

Matt wrote:
I am trying to set up the Temp Enrich to add more fuel when the Temps exceed 193F for additional fuel cooling. My engine will run up to 210F (99c) out here on hard drives which is fine but it begs more fuel at that temp vs when its running at 180F (82C)
That table is only used upto about 80-85degC and then is no longer used. You wont be able to add it for over this normally

The SR20 engines have an overtemp set of tables but not sure about these earliers. Would need to dig into that further to see if there is something. I have some other items to work on in the meantime but will get back to this. Putting version 1.2.7 up today with the above fixes
Just curious, if they only get used up to 80-85c (180f) why does the map go all the way up to 110c? (230f)
Temp enrich 230F.jpg
Temp enrich 230F.jpg (48.91 KiB) Viewed 3149 times

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Re: Timing issues

Post by Matt » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:00 pm

It just uses the same scales for all temp enrich maps. One way of checking them it to modify the values and watch injection time upto where it stops

my1path
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Re: Timing issues

Post by my1path » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:16 am

I'm just now coming back to this (life happens) I have downloaded NIStune Version 1.2.20 (Test release) and I like what I see.
But I am still having incorrect timing offsets.

Consult is reporting +10 from the actual Idle N and Idle (not N) settings. Timing light shows my actual idle matches the idle settings.
(Consult 30, Idle 20, light 20)

Consult is reporting +15 from the actual timing maps when throttle is lifted to any position and I am using a fixed 20 map for this test. Timing light shows +3 from the actual MAP
(Consult 35, Map 20, light 23)
Attachments
M30_VG30_256_E.adr
and here is the adr file I have in my folder
(2.23 KiB) Downloaded 74 times
14.47fuel and 20timing calibration.bin
Here is the fixed 20 map I am using
(32 KiB) Downloaded 66 times

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Re: Timing issues

Post by Matt » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:57 am

Try adjusting your offsets for M30
CONSULT_TIMING_OFFSET=20
TIMING_MAP_OFFSET=5
You can edit your address file under Documents\Nistune\Address\M30_VG30E_256_E.adr

Issue raised:
http://www.nistune.com/mantis/view.php?id=25

Let me know how that goes

my1path
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Re: Timing issues

Post by my1path » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:29 pm

Matt wrote:Try adjusting your offsets for M30
CONSULT_TIMING_OFFSET=20
TIMING_MAP_OFFSET=5
You can edit your address file under Documents\Nistune\Address\M30_VG30E_256_E.adr

Issue raised:
http://www.nistune.com/mantis/view.php?id=25

Let me know how that goes
Thankyou, I did not realize I could edit this file. I changed one of the offsets from 35 to CONSULT_TIMING_OFFSET=45
And now my Reported timing matches the map but reported Idle and Neutral Idle is still off by 5 and Changing TIMING_MAP_OFFSET=5 could not get me my desired result for reported Idle timing.
Now I am seeing some Idle timing references but I don't know which one I should edit, if any:
#Idle timing
BASE_TARGET_IDLE_RPM,&H7E60,16,1,16,1,Neutral Idle RPM vs Temp

IDLE_TIMING,&H76F0,16,1,16,1,Idle Ignition Non-Neutral Timing
IDLE_TIMING_NEUTRAL,&H7EA0,16,1,16,1,Idle Ignition Neutral Timing

TIMING_RPM_SUBTRACT,&H75B0,16,1,16,1
IDLE_TIMING_WARM_OFFSET,&H7FD9,1,1,1,1
HIGH_TIMING_ADVANCE_BETA,&H7E70,16,1,16,1,Beta Timing vs RPM
TIMING_RETARD,&H7B90,16,1,16,1


Lastly I saw this and I know the M30 did not use 370cc injectors. They were ~180cc stock. So I corrected that as well.
#ENGINE SPECIFIC PARAMETERS
CYLINDER=6
ENGINECC=3000
INJECTORCC=370

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