CA18DET + Type 1 board => knock maps

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ByReaL
 

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CA18DET + Type 1 board => knock maps

Post by ByReaL »

you raised this issue on ecu2.forumwise....

i tested today this problem, and it is a software bug in my opinion,
the software point you that the ECU is reading from the knock map, but if you make any change to fuel/ignition knock map there si no efect, but if you do any change to the normal fuel/ignition map you can see the cange
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Post by Matt »

So what you are saying is.... the ECU is actually using the 'high octane' map but NIStune reports that it is 'knock map'

You have determined this by modifying the 'knock map' and it makes no difference. But when you modify the 'high octane' map it does make a difference?

What about the timing value in the consult window? Is this correct? You can use the 'filtered' view in timing to line the degrees upto real BDTC


The fix for this would be to invert the logic where knock / fuel maps are being highlighted then?
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Post by ByReaL »

Matt wrote:So what you are saying is.... the ECU is actually using the 'high octane' map but NIStune reports that it is 'knock map'
YES


Matt wrote:You have determined this by modifying the 'knock map' and it makes no difference. But when you modify the 'high octane' map it does make a difference?
YES


Matt wrote:What about the timing value in the consult window? Is this correct? You can use the 'filtered' view in timing to line the degrees upto real BDTC
hmmm, did not looked at that. i'll have a look tonight and report back


Matt wrote:The fix for this would be to invert the logic where knock / fuel maps are being highlighted then?
this seams to be the first solution i can see, but will be this aproch the corect way? it will work when the ecu will change maps?

i mean how do you know witch map the ecu is reading ? do you know the info from the ECU or how is this done ?
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Post by Matt »

i definately know this is the RAM address from code disassembly. however i might have read its logic backwards... so i will need to double check

that is good. i was hoping the board wasnt putting ecu into knock mode (no reason why it should)

in regards to the RAM address for timing i have four different places

103D = one that nistune displays (seems to line upto consult timing addresses in R32/Z32 ecus)
110D
1106 -> Saved in 1116

this is offset by CONSULT_TIMING_OFFSET in the address file before display. similar with the filtered view using same value offset
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Post by ByReaL »

you will not belive this but:

normal fuel map and knock ignition map are used by my ECU :shock: :shock: :shock:
(what i have said inprevious posts was based on changing the fuel map and noticing what is happening, and they are tru, if i change data on the normal fuel map the change is observed by the wideband unit, and if i cange the timings on the knock timing map, the timings will change, changes on knock fuel map and normal ignition map have no efect)




not directly related:

played a lot (but it seams it was not enough) with the ignition, raised the boost to 1 bar (GT2871R) turbo, and i cold not make the engine to knock, (did abused my luck), then i took a spaner and hited the engine block but nothing no det recorded by Nistune (any ideas about how to test nistune report corectly when the engine will knock?)

did this to hear if it is knocking http://www.h-dev.co.uk/article.php?article=17 as a mesure of safety , but either i'm deff and nistune does not "sense" knocks or i could not make my engine to knock (i'll not try to hard to make it knock but i must know if i can relay on CA18DET ecu and NIStune for knock recognition)

what does the "silent" checkbox do? from the Knock display (the display that apears when you press the D key)?
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Post by Matt »

the way i tested with putting a pulse generator into the knock sensor input. it is very specific to frequency for knocking to be detected

when you get knocking with the detonation window open it will make a noise (beep). silent stops beeping

i tested also with knock sensor on a plate and hammering it....
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Post by Matt »

this is my commenting on the code for CA18... this appears to use two independent memory addresses for knock determination for this ECU

from the below code both of the maps are used for timing which is why it has an effect

i will however use the fuel map as a primary indication that knock has been detected for highlight

otherwise i might need to hadd 0058(40) checking for knock map as an additional firmware consult table change (im running out of spare consult register entries to use for this...)

B19B : FE 10 C4 " " ldx X10C4 ; 10C4->00C9
B19E : DF 69 " i" stx X0069
B1A0 : 71 1F 7D "q }" aim #$1FX007D ;
B1A3 : 72 10 7D "r }" oim #$10X007D
B1A6 : CE BA 00 " " ldx #$BA00 ; REG FIRE
B1A9 : DF 74 " t" stx X0074
B1AB : CE BB F0 " " ldx #$BBF0 ; RPM scale
B1AE : DF 76 " v" stx X0076
B1B0 : CE BB E0 " " ldx #$BBE0 ; TP scale
B1B3 : DF 78 " x" stx X0078
B1B5 : BD 80 D9 " " jsr L80D9 ; Interpolate routine -> A
B1B8 : 36 "6" psha
B1B9 : 71 1F 7D "q }" aim #$1FX007D
B1BC : 72 10 7D "r }" oim #$10X007D
B1BF : CE BC 00 " " ldx #$BC00 ; HIGH_FIRE
B1C2 : DF 74 " t" stx X0074
B1C4 : CE BB F0 " " ldx #$BBF0 ; RPM scale
B1C7 : DF 76 " v" stx X0076
B1C9 : CE BB E0 " " ldx #$BBE0 ; TP scale
B1CC : DF 78 " x" stx X0078
B1CE : BD 80 D9 " " jsr L80D9 ; Interpolate routine -> A
B1D1 : 33 "3" pulb
B1D2 : 10 " " sba ; A=A-B
B1D3 : B7 10 C2 " " staa X10C2 ; Timing difference A -> 10C2
B1D6 : 17 " " tba ; A=B
B1D7 : B7 11 0D " " staa X110D ; Store in map timing value
B1DA : D6 58 " X" ldab X0058
B1DC : C5 40 " @" bitb #$40 ; Knocking 0058(40) set?
B1DE : 27 08 "' " beq LB1E8
B1E0 : B0 B9 2D " -" suba XB92D ; YES then A=A-4 reduce timing by 4 until 0
B1E3 : 24 17 "$ " bcc LB1FC if < 0 then
B1E5 : 4F "O" clra set A=0
B1E6 : 20 14 " " bra LB1FC Store in 103D (Ignition timing)
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Post by ByReaL »

not shure i understand the thing with "use both maps"

it uses both/them in same time ? how that?
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Post by Matt »

basically the above ...

(a) Reads the REG_FIRE timing value (knock) puts on STACK

(b) reads the HIGH_FIRE timing value, minus the knock timing value from STACK puts into 10C2 (difference between HIGH/REG)

(c) Gets the HIGH_FIRE timing value and then checks if knocking flag set, and if so retards the timing by 4 until reaches 0

Somewhere else it must use the 10C2 (difference) and pull it back from the retarted timing value obtained from HIGH_FIRE map

This is different to how R32/Z32 do theirs. They use the same flag and just switch between maps. But afterwards they pull the timing back based on a REG/HIGH knock count 3x3 map
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Post by ByReaL »

now version xxxx16 (and posible xxxx15 did not checked to be 100% shure) event at idle if i press "D" key ,the knock windows open and knock is detected all the time,

i do not know if i read somewhere (if so it is a bug if not an enhacement request), cells where knock is detected should be marked somehow,

at this moment they are not (knock detected all teh time so it should mark all the cels where it travels)
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Post by Matt »

I've indicated in another post that in this current build, the knock flags are under rewrtie as the address and flag type operation differers for each ecu (have about 30 or so different ECUs to update in a table). so currently its not working but will be put in again soon

There is no current implementation or enhancement request to 'mark up' knock indicated cells.... (there was a request on the bikirom forums however which you may be thinking of?). I can add a feature to mark cells as 'red' if you want this to be added in the future
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Post by ByReaL »

i know knock is "under construction" i just wanted to let you know about what is hapening on CA18DET on the new software version


it is ok marking the cell with red or whatever color you think will look nice, for cels where knock ocurs
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Post by ByReaL »

Discovered this topic
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=285064
page 2 is about knock mostly, you can do a test if you have the "tools" with a japan bin file.


acording to them european image does nothing even the knock sensor is present and ecu has all the devices inside it, only the japan image react on knocks,

european ones react only when knock sensor id disconected,


this is what i have understood from there, maybe this will give you some new hints about this subject



PS: on the CSV file (i sent to you by email some) Knock Fuel flag usualy is 80 and sometimes under hard throthle it is 84, but using my own knock sesning device i canot hear any knocks (i'll have my car soon tuned with some profesional logging hardware that has his own knock sensing and i'll report back), what that bit means? could it be for wide open throthle? or what ?
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Post by ByReaL »

any news on knock stuff?
is it working now on CA18DET?

it is any confirmation on Japan ECU and European ECU diferences on knock detection...


any new info will be highly apreciated.
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Post by Matt »

sorry this is still on my to do list. I have acquired another CA18 ECU with knock daughterboard fitted on my bench last week (the last one i had was on line) so should be able to start testing this again.

it appears from some other discussions on main section that the low octane map isn't used just for knocking
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