Matts side projects

If you know what B.S. stands for you know what goes here.

Moderator: Matt

Timbo_021
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:02 pm

Re: Matts side projects

Post by Timbo_021 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:19 am

Love the car :D

TM_S13
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:29 pm

Re: Matts side projects

Post by TM_S13 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:16 pm

I do love to see "speedy grandpa's" as this GTS... hehehe
what were the results Matt ?

PL
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:29 pm
Location: Adelaide, South Oz
Contact:

Re: Matts side projects

Post by PL » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:35 pm

He he he - "Speedy Grandpas" - love it. :)

Better watch it - Matt loves that car!

It does go quite well. I took it for a quick spin after the tune and it gets along quite respectably.

At lonnnnng last we got some semi-decent results from it. I say semi-decent because it finally gave consistent results - if not astounding. We've never really been able to get 2 runs to give the same graph! But after replacing more bits than I can remember it looks like we might be headed in the right direction.

Matt had boost set at 17psi (!!!). Luckily mixtures were going off-scale rich as soon as boost came up. It was still rattling its head off and it was only once we turned boost down to a more liveable 14psi and hacked the timing map around quite severely that it started to get anywhere near safe. Then we leaned things out and began the delicate timing vs AFR dance. Man they're touchy on the timing. Too much and they detonate, too little and power plummets. I guess that's to be expected when you're dealing with a high compression NA engine that's been boosted.

We tried the Z32 AFM blo-thru and suck-thru. It does make a difference to AFR's but in the end I convinced Matt to leave it suck-thru. More in the interests of keeping the sensing element clean than anything else.

I haven't scanned the dyno graphs yet but it basically makes a solid 200rwkw from about 4000 at approx 14psi. Towards the end I realised that it would take more timing (15 degrees) above 5000 (it absolutely refused to take any more than about 9 degrees in the midrange) which caused a funny little peak to nearly 220, before power plumetted after 5500.

I'm wondering if the intercooler is restricting flow or something. May have to do some pre/post IC pressure measurements. Matt's got a bigger turbo to fit up now anyway, so we called it a night and we'll do some more tuning once that's fitted. Hopefully it'll wake the top end up a bit.

Any comments from RB30E+T gurus on this are most welcome as they're not an engine I've had many dealings with.

PL

STATUS
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:30 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: Matts side projects

Post by STATUS » Sat May 01, 2010 4:11 pm

PL wrote:He he he - "Speedy Grandpas" - love it. :)

Matt had boost set at 17psi (!!!). Luckily mixtures were going off-scale rich as soon as boost came up. It was still rattling its head off and it was only once we turned boost down to a more liveable 14psi and hacked the timing map around quite severely that it started to get anywhere near safe. Then we leaned things out and began the delicate timing vs AFR dance. Man they're touchy on the timing. Too much and they detonate, too little and power plummets. I guess that's to be expected when you're dealing with a high compression NA engine that's been boosted.

PL
The damn dissy's have like 4mm free play in the gear mesh so if you strobe the balancer the you get HUUUUGE variances in actual timing, i did a R30 with close to 400rwkw and it was off its lips.... ooh and a cam (even a cheap regrind) keeps em strong till redline.

Matt
Site Admin
Posts: 8286
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:45 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Re: Matts side projects

Post by Matt » Sun May 02, 2010 10:59 am

Better get those dyno graphs up...

Careful with that grampa comment! Yes R31s are family/elderly persons car however Nissan Special Vehicles Divison GTS models were in a different league since they had a lot of upgrades of the standard R31s. Pity they didnt come out turbo from factory

GTS2 variant handles really nicely, brakes better than my last one did, has an upgraded bodykit and interior etc.

Quite a few articles here on my SVD page. Craps over the Holden offering
http://www.nistune.com/r31%2Dwww/silhou ... index.html
Attachments
Pict0010a.jpg
Power vs Boost
Pict0010a.jpg (72.05 KiB) Viewed 4396 times
Pict0009a.jpg
Power vs AFR
Pict0009a.jpg (73.49 KiB) Viewed 4396 times

TM_S13
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:29 pm

Re: Matts side projects

Post by TM_S13 » Sun May 02, 2010 11:19 am

the "grandpa" comment was about the car itself, not the type/age of people that drive it !! lolololol

I tend to say that older cars, up to 1989, like my S13, are the grandpas due to their age... lol
Since your "grandpa" has some massive upgrades, it's a "speedy grandpa" hehehe

Capixe ??

:P

Matt
Site Admin
Posts: 8286
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:45 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Re: Matts side projects

Post by Matt » Sun May 02, 2010 10:33 pm

gotya. yeah the car is about 22 years old now ... making me about 12 at the time when it was released!

r31skylineclub.com forums they are referred to grandpa cars because of the other reason that old people tended to drive them

now that everyone knows they can cheaply bolt on turbos to RB30s they are now getting a reputation as a hoon car instead :roll:

PL
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:29 pm
Location: Adelaide, South Oz
Contact:

Re: Matts side projects

Post by PL » Mon May 03, 2010 10:43 am

Hey Trent,

That's a very interesting comment about the slop in the dizzy. Could explain a lot. I suspect on something that's as touchy on the timing as Matt's RB30E+T it could make all the difference. But what the hell could be done about it? Other than going to some sort of crank trigger setup I suspect not much...

PL

Matt
Site Admin
Posts: 8286
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:45 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Re: Matts side projects

Post by Matt » Mon May 03, 2010 11:03 am

Pete - car is at Pauls now getting that hiflow T03 fitted. He was concerned about the cracks in the exhaust housing which they are notorious for so will see how long it holds on

PL
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:29 pm
Location: Adelaide, South Oz
Contact:

Re: Matts side projects

Post by PL » Mon May 03, 2010 11:08 am

Be interesting to see how it goes - given its errr "questionable" condition!

I wouldn't be getting rid of your old turbo just yet - you may be needing it!

PL

Matt
Site Admin
Posts: 8286
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:45 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Re: Matts side projects

Post by Matt » Mon May 03, 2010 11:16 am

Definately keeping hold of that other one....

Decs
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 11:05 pm

Re: Matts side projects

Post by Decs » Sat May 08, 2010 2:54 pm

STATUS wrote:
PL wrote:He he he - "Speedy Grandpas" - love it. :)

Matt had boost set at 17psi (!!!). Luckily mixtures were going off-scale rich as soon as boost came up. It was still rattling its head off and it was only once we turned boost down to a more liveable 14psi and hacked the timing map around quite severely that it started to get anywhere near safe. Then we leaned things out and began the delicate timing vs AFR dance. Man they're touchy on the timing. Too much and they detonate, too little and power plummets. I guess that's to be expected when you're dealing with a high compression NA engine that's been boosted.

PL
The damn dissy's have like 4mm free play in the gear mesh so if you strobe the balancer the you get HUUUUGE variances in actual timing, i did a R30 with close to 400rwkw and it was off its lips.... ooh and a cam (even a cheap regrind) keeps em strong till redline.

The play in the dissy has always concerned me. I have a theory though... when the rpm's are rising the dissy is getting driven at an increasing speed meaning the teeth are meshing on only one side and should be fairly consistent. The massive change in timing would occur when you back off and engine speed drops, and then again when you throttle on again. Any thoughts on this theory?


Matt, i know it probably defeating the point of your efforts but, have you considered running an rb30 on an rb20 ecu? I've done it twice now with fantastic results. You gain easy knock sensing and ease of afm upgrades too. Win win.

Matt
Site Admin
Posts: 8286
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:45 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Re: Matts side projects

Post by Matt » Mon May 10, 2010 8:23 pm

I've thought about it. Thats how my bench first started with RB30-RB20 loom but never tried it out. No time these days to play with those things!

High flow is in and next dyno session probably in a few weeks. I like to see knock counter working again and boost (DLP input) and AFR (innovate) all working together before the next test but trying to finish up Type 5 work at the moment

ST240
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 8:12 am

Re: Matts side projects

Post by ST240 » Wed May 19, 2010 10:50 am

Decs wrote: have you considered running an rb30 on an rb20 ecu? I've done it twice now with fantastic results.
Perhaps you can help me instead of me making a new thread.

I'm running RB30E + RB25DE head controlled by nistune for an RB20 with all sensors mated to the engine. I also plan to use 750ccs and Z32 maf. Should i just get it running and idling with stock rb20 injectors/maf?

What's you advice in terms of base maps? Are there any you can use?

Any info is appreciated. Thanks.

PL
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:29 pm
Location: Adelaide, South Oz
Contact:

Re: Matts side projects

Post by PL » Wed May 19, 2010 11:04 am

With a major project like that it's always best to get things running with std hardware first if you can. It simply minimises the variables - so if it doesn't run right you've got some hope of working out where the problem lies.

Having said that, things will already be thrown out a bit with the extra capacity, but you should be able to get it running sweet pretty easily. I'd say if it starts up OK and idles smoothly then you've pretty much proven your point, then go the bigger AFM and injectors. You could play around and get it driving nicely with std AFM/inj too but I wouldn't waste too much time on it - better off spending that time tuning with the final setup.

Should be a pretty sweet setup I reckon.

PL

Post Reply