Nissan crowd obsessed with Speed Density/MAP based tuning

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Tengis
 

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Nissan crowd obsessed with Speed Density/MAP based tuning

Post by Tengis »

I cant even count how many times Ive gotten into arguments with people over MAP vs MAF. Usually people start spitting out a lot of bro-science about MAP tuning when, realistically, they have no idea what they are talking about.

I know there are a number of high HP cars that run speed density but, as someone that has tuned both foreign and domestic cars... it seems like people tend to flock to speed density just because they think it is somehow magically easier and better.

I know this is on the back burner for Nistune but is it actually on the burner? I can only imagine your sales would increase a decent bit and the resellers/vendors would have another feature to talk about and generate sales.
skylinegtrhr
 

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Re: Nissan crowd obsessed with Speed Density/MAP based tunin

Post by skylinegtrhr »

Tengis wrote:I can only imagine your sales would increase a decent bit and the resellers/vendors would have another feature to talk about and generate sales.
And also it would generate a lot of useless(time consuming and unpaid) talking with customers because MAP tuning except hi-end standalone ECUs (LIFE , BOSCH Motorsport, Pectel) don't work in everyday driving, and you always need to do additional adjusting not to mention that on twin turbo cars it is essential to use EMAP also,
and to start MAP Nistune development just to try to sell boards to "internet tuners/drifters" is not long term financial justified in my opinion ,
Nistune is cheap and reliably tuning option for everyday driving and track action and what is not broken shouldn't be fix :)
Tengis
 

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Re: Nissan crowd obsessed with Speed Density/MAP based tunin

Post by Tengis »

I agree with you. Ive never been a big fan of it myself.
Matt
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Re: Nissan crowd obsessed with Speed Density/MAP based tunin

Post by Matt »

The map sensing is not on the back burner to speak but there are a lot of other things to fix/finish up before I start working on that

Here is my current list with 88 items (many of these green I have been resolving over the last week since emails and sales have slowed, giving me more time to work on developing and fixing things)
http://www.nistune.com/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php

Several reasons for moving to MAP include not being restricted to using an MAF in the existing plumbing and the problems associated with it (those vehicles reaching over 350rwkw on Z32 MAF) and problems associated with reversion. Also many of the more expensive vehicle setups dont like having it in the piping, or run turbos with large intakes 4" which dont work with the Z32 MAF

This is why I've been working with Nick @ PMAS using the HPX-N1 sensors over the last year. Those sensors have massive measurement capacity, great idle handling at low loads. However the Nissan method of adjusting K constant for the maximum capacity of these MAFs threw the TP scales out completely. Hence feature pack changes added to allow changing fueling and load independently. Also the VQ resize generator utility in Nistune to scale back the MAF curve to the capacity of the vehicle (rather than capacity of the MAF). I think this is a good replacement for the Z32 MAF without needing to move the MAP sensing

I do get quite a few workshops asking for MAP sensing regardless because many of them just work with aftermarket ECUs which are all MAP based. Many individuals want MAP sensing because they just don't want to plumb in the MAF sensor into the vehicle and fit BOVs etc to avoid reversion problems. With MAP sensing the load tracing is simple since you set up the columns based on boost and then tune it accordingly.

However the variety of Nissan ECUs which are supported by Nistune is quite large, so once again I will only limit to what I currently work with the feature pack range of ECUs. Feature Pack 2 is intended to cover boost by ethanol control. Feature Pack 3 would ideally be the MAP support work

I've got some idea how to put it together, but it is quite a bit of modification to each ECU code base. Perhaps I just start with one of two to get started. However then everyone will want it on every other possible variation...! One thing that concerns me is problems with tuning MAP sensors and the many variations which can make a daily driver not run as well as it did with the MAF sensor

It is worth the time and will extra boards be sold due to the extra firmware changes? This is negligible. Its taken over 12 months to deveop and test the first feature pack. There may be a few more sold but I don't think it would be enough to cover the effort, as those owners will probably get after market anyway with the extra bells and whistles.

I'm getting a lot of regular queries for the later model ECUs which are more expensive vehicles and would have a greater return on time invested I would think. It also removes the whole modifying hardware part of the package which is very time consuming when people send in their ECUs to install and repair and many hours get lost to resolving issues like that
skylinegtrhr
 

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Re: Nissan crowd obsessed with Speed Density/MAP based tunin

Post by skylinegtrhr »

Matt wrote: I'm getting a lot of regular queries for the later model ECUs which are more expensive vehicles and would have a greater return on time invested I would think.
Totally agree, these Nistune vehicles are mostly 20-25 years old and market is shrinking,
So we need to look at future of Nissan tuning: Z34 and Juke turbo (which already have Ecutek) and a lot of cars that don't have any reliable remapping option like: new Pulsar with MR16DDT (and everything else with same engine as there are quite a lot of cheap Renault Clio's with this engines-if this ECU become mapable it would be great swap option -great engine and DSG transmission but chassis electric and electronic is unreliable as any French car :( ) Y61 Patrol, Z33,Infiniti models and cars with HR12DDR , HR12DDT which are produced and sales in mass numbers ...
Bernardd
 

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Re: Nissan crowd obsessed with Speed Density/MAP based tunin

Post by Bernardd »

Has anyone considered third party hardware to convert the maf itself to map and leaving the ecu software alone? There are a number of converters available for this that require some datalogging to tune the converter before removing the maf. An intake senser is a must to do this properly. A temp correction table should be fairly easy to build then send signal to ecu. I have heard of several diy tuners not using an air temp senser with good results.
Matt
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Re: Nissan crowd obsessed with Speed Density/MAP based tunin

Post by Matt »

Some tuners don't worry about IAT when tuning and that is just another correction factor anyway

I've seen the HKS vein pressure converter but thats about it. I've heard and spoken to some people who were going to make something but I suspect with all the calibration and getting things running right that many projects just don't finish due to technical issues
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