noob need help with ca18det

Nistune topics specific to the 6802 cpu

Moderator: Matt

Pl240sx
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 pm

noob need help with ca18det

Postby Pl240sx » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:17 am

so I am very new to this tuning stuff. I have done a lot of reading and I think I have a pretty good idea of how this all works but i am stuck on how to get things setup properly. I have adjusted the TIM and k constant and have gotten it to idle, however it runs super rich even when I lower my tppmin. When I adjust TIM and K to get it to around 14.7 2500 rpms in neutral my afr gauge goes lean when i press the throttle. so it will either idle really rich and run okay or it will be around 14.1 afr at idle and when i step on the throttle it will go lean instead of going rich. I am not sure what to correct here.
I am in Utah, United States of America and there is no one close to me that I can have help me set it up. I have attached a bin of the changes I have made. I have a couple z32 mafs laying around but they seem to not be working as well. the voltage on those wouldn't go above 2.5 volts
I have a
Ca18det
fmic
3" exhaust
440cc rx-7 injectors
J30 maf e60
gt2871r turbo
Attachments
feb4j30.bin
(32 KiB) Downloaded 11 times
Last edited by Pl240sx on Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Matt
Site Admin
Posts: 7649
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:45 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Matt » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:04 am

Injection latency changed from 550uS to 1040uS which is quite high. For those injectors around 700uS is a good starting point

K constant increased significantly from 183 to 607. How far does your load cursor go across the map on boost (if you can boost safely that is). You might need to pull this back a bit

You kind of need to do some dyno pulls to see how the AFRs are tracing across the fuel map (have wideband hooked into Nistune, use the Trace button and monitor AFRs across the map)

If you sit cruising and it is around 14.7:1 then that is good and TIM is in the right spot (assuming you are operating in the standard load range)

Idle issues sort afterwards (you shouldnt need to normally lift TP min table like that, and the latency also since both are making idle richer than it should be)

Pl240sx
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 pm

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Pl240sx » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:55 am

Thanks for the reply. I haven't tried getting into boost with the e60 maf sensor because it would go lean when rpm's went up and didn't want to risk anything. I test drove it with the stock maf and it went to the last column on the fuel map. I will do another test drive with the K constant changed on this maf.

Right now I have a prosport wideband installed and I was going off the gauge for the afr's. I guess I will need to buy an innovate wideband to connect it to the computer. (I just ordered one so I can do some logging.)

I'll worry about fixing idle later.
Just to clarify (I should drive the car and change TIM first to get it to 14.7 at cruise then get into boost and see what column I go to on the fuel map? then decrease the k constant so I access the last column?) after I do this will I need to adjust TIM if I lower the K constant?

Thanks again.

Matt
Site Admin
Posts: 7649
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:45 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Matt » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:41 am

Yes change the TIM first so that you are 14.7:1 on cruise. Ensure that fuel trims (STFT/LTFT) are around 0%

Once you have that right, start carefully going onto boost and check that you start heading to safe AFRs (around 11.5:1) as you go on boost and that your cursor is moving across the map to the RHS

If you go too far and not on full boost yet, then decrease K (which also reduces fueling, so then increase TIM to add the fuel back)

Yes any change to K needs to be offset with TIM to keep the fueling the same

Pl240sx
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 pm

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Pl240sx » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:35 pm

Thanks I appreciate it.
It is all starting to make a lot more sense now.

Pl240sx
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 pm

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Pl240sx » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:17 am

I was able to log a run today and was able to get the afr at 14.7 during cruising to day I readjust TIM and the K constant. I was able to get into boost up to about 7 or 8lbs afr's went in the 9's at this. Is this a fuel Map issue or is my K constant still off? i also was in the last column of the fuel map. I think I have it adjusted pretty well, my TIM and K constant. here is my log for today and my bin I'm unsure of what step to take next. Should I start tuning the fuel map or are there other parameters to change before I get to this.
Attachments
feb4j30.bin
(32 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
test 2_2017-02-18_1811_36.csv
(77.93 KiB) Downloaded 11 times

Pl240sx
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 pm

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Pl240sx » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:23 pm

Another question...Do I need to do any TP rescaling? on my log tp went all the way to 103 and my map is only set to 83 I plan on running about 15lbs of boost once its all said and done. Should I just keep adjusting the K constant so I stay below 83 or do I need to change the fuel and ignition load scale? If so what would you suggest? Ive been reading a lot and I'm not sure what applies to the standard version of nistune or the feature pack(which I have).

Thanks,

Matt
Site Admin
Posts: 7649
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:45 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Matt » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:44 pm

Attached is the image showing your log

Input tracer shows you are doing too rich. Starting 11.5:1 coming onto boost and then going into 10:1 from 3200rpm onwards so you might have to pull that back a bit (lower fuel maps assuming at cruise you are 14.7:1)

Log shows you are reaching 102 TP on the second run (MAF volt = 3.78 volts) so you will need to scale back K constant about 20% to get it closer to TP=80 and then increase TIM about the same (20%) to get AFRs back to where they were
Attachments
ca18det.png
ca18det.png (215.3 KiB) Viewed 618 times

Pl240sx
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 pm

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Pl240sx » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:41 pm

okay, thank you.

Pl240sx
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 pm

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Pl240sx » Fri May 19, 2017 5:12 am

I'm back at this again and have been able to drive around and I thought I was pretty close to having this figured out and then... Realized I have a few issues...
I was able to do a 14psi run and got my tp correct and everything seemed good. I have tried changing tp min values, latency, and the fuel map, but these things work for a little while and then I have stalling issues on Decel when coming to a stop and going from really rich to running lean on idle.

NOTE* I have switched to the 444cc gtir injectors and I have the O2 sensor disabled because its reading 2.55v in nistune. I have the simulated narrowband hooked up and have tried enabling that, but I'm having the same issues. I'm also second guessing myself, I have an e60 maf and have chosen j30 late model(403hp) when changing from the stock afm. this is correct right?

1. when headlights are on afr's drop from 11.9 to 14.0 at idle
2. decel afr's are in the 10's and it almost stalls before returning to 12's
3. Idle is hard to get above 12.5 without it wanting to stall.
4. Ive read that the lower part of the VQ map may need some adjustment
5.I changed the temp enrich(increased) because it kept stalling when the engine was cold(o2 sensor was disabled), but let in come down as it came to operating temp.
Attachments
P_20170518_124004.jpg
e60 maf
P_20170518_124004.jpg (2.31 MiB) Viewed 494 times
may18_2017-05-18_1109_19.csv
(363.7 KiB) Downloaded 8 times
aprilj30.bin
(32 KiB) Downloaded 9 times

Pl240sx
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 pm

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Pl240sx » Wed May 24, 2017 4:56 am

here's another log. It is almost undrivable now because it stalls so much and it starting to idle in the 9's i don't know what to do. everything I have read I have tried and it doesn't make a difference. Car ran perfect stock with a few bolt ons. I am completely lost now. I have even tried starting with the base map again thinking I might of messed something up and only changing the maf and injector size and setting the k constant and tim I found. still wont idle and runs super rich.
Attachments
rich_2017-05-23_1039_47.csv
(158.47 KiB) Downloaded 10 times

Matt
Site Admin
Posts: 7649
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:45 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Matt » Wed May 24, 2017 10:49 pm

Some notes... posting a 23 minute log file is great but we need timestamp pointers in your notes

You need to go through it and included in your notes what parts of the logs we should be looking at to see the problems you are reporting. I don't have time to look through the whole log to find each of the issues

1. AFR change needs further investigation. Perhaps vehicle grounding issue. What else drops (injection time, battery voltage, when the AFRs change?)

Is this in the log? If so what timestamp?

2. Your AFRs are quite rich as it is. Looking at 1:03 showed 10:1

What we need is a boost from idle pull and then look at the run. Much of the log shows just driving in areas with different loads and RPM points.

3. This indicates some likely mechanical issue. If you have 12.5:1 and and leaner like 13:1 or 14:1 indicates a potential vehicle issue since the mixtures are correct, and the timing probably is too

4. Sometimes but dont worry about this right now

5. So that is why you changed your coolant temp enrich to this:
103 102 102 100 98 90 88 88 88 88 88 88 88 88 88 88 88 88

Did not make sense

The J30 VG30DE (late maxima) VQ map was pulled from that same ROM file. I cannot confirm it matches your ECU part number. You would need to check on Nissan FAST (or google)

Why did you tick Bits 5,6,7 in feature control flags?

I would expect a flatter fuel map with larger injectors than stock

Pl240sx
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 pm

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Pl240sx » Thu May 25, 2017 3:42 am

sorry for the long log file. it was supposed to only be 2 minutes, it must of not cut off the old one... I'll have an extremely shorter and timestamped log for you.

1.Just realized when switching from the rx-7 injectors to the gtir injectors that I forgot to tighten the injector harness grounds on the intake...

2.okay, I will get a log for that. I also rechecked fuel pressure and found it was set to 50 psi with vacuum and lowered that to 43 psi. I had originally set it to 43 psi but it it was high some how...

3.decel AFR's when rich is likely a mechanical issue? under 1/4 throttle the AFR's are in the 10's but when cruising they are at 14.7

4.okay, i set the temp enrich back to the original.

My question about the MAF was to make sure the E60 MAF is in fact the j30 one in the drop down list and not the rb25det.

I ticked the bits to just see if they changed anything and forgot to untick them when i saved the map.

Thanks for getting back to me. I'll post the idle to boost log later today.

Pl240sx
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 pm

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Pl240sx » Mon May 29, 2017 7:59 am

here are my logs from today.

Around the 15 second mark is when i reach full boost at 14psi.

My k constant is correct and i achieve 14.7 afr on cruise. Everything seems pretty good. my only concern is stalling on decel and it going rich, it will only do this with the o2 sensor off. with it on it will go in the 12's.
Attachments
mayj30.bin
(32 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
idle to boost_2017-05-28_1414_15.csv
(59.35 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

Matt
Site Admin
Posts: 7649
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:45 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Contact:

Re: noob need help with ca18det

Postby Matt » Mon May 29, 2017 12:43 pm

It strange you have a bit of a lean spot (green circle) around 1600rpm. Your MAF voltage is taking a while to climb in this spot and might be related to the issue. Try increasing your TP max table (from 1200 - 2000) to larger values and see if that helps. This might be clamping your load (TP index) since it seems to be stuck around this area (flat line in the log)

Going off boost is a separate issue and we can see that even on deceleration you have a fair amount of airflow reading, which translates into still adding fuel (and hence rich). Make sure you have a BOV fitted, plumbed back facing the turbo. You should not be reading much voltage on decel but logs show you are. Hence the richness

Also going on boost you are reaching around 10:1 AFR around 45200-6000 so you might want to clean up the fuel map in this area and flatten the top of it
Attachments
ca18_playback.png
ca18_playback.png (65.39 KiB) Viewed 437 times


Return to “Type 1”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests