Ignition timing issue

[raddy]

yes, but I had exactly same issue at another cars with knock sensor connected, does not matter or opposite, I got cars that knock violently and nothing changed in timing....even if ECU will pull timing due DTC, why it pull it only in low load transition area, but not in full boost/max. torque/max. power area? This is not logical....if you can see, MIL-Tec doesnt have knock sensor DTC and have timing pull in even 2200rpm...so this should point knock sensor completelly out. Also, I have marked as used only main maps, not also knock maps as MIL-Tec had...
And, as I mentioned, I was able to influence this timing pull only by map adjustment, in my case I have dip only in 500rpm area at about 3500rpm, I cannot imagine why should ECU pull timing right there...
I think that if MIL-Tec will unmount knock sensor from block and insulate it complete to avoid any knock signal, timing pull will be same-but this should be checked...

[raddy]

Edit: false alarm, some parts were just making very "knocky" noises on the floor
I did some further adjustments and seems that map and consult is about 5 degrees out in transition area. I copied the main map to knock map but didn't get rid of that problem

did you tryied to increase map values in mentioned area to check if consult timing is changed or stays same?

[MIL-Tec]

did you tryied to increase map values in mentioned area to check if consult timing is changed or stays same?

The whole horizontal area bethween 2800 and 4000 rpm is out by 5deg's.

Did you say you have a knock sensor DTC?

Do you mean detached?
Knock sensor is in place. I was planning to take another sensor to avoid any fault codes.

[MIL-Tec]

did you tryied to increase map values in mentioned area to check if consult timing is changed or stays same?

Almost the whole horizontal area bethween 2800 and 4000 rpm is out by 5deg's. I didn't want to advance the timing too much from the map, because if the timing somehow would actually be what the map wants I'll break my engine.

Did you say you have a knock sensor DTC?

Do you mean detached?
Knock sensor is in place. I was planning to take another sensor to avoid any fault codes.

[raddy]

did you tryied to increase map values in mentioned area to check if consult timing is changed or stays same?

Almost the whole horizontal area bethween 2800 and 4000 rpm is out by 5deg's.

if you increase map values at this area, will it increase also consult reported timing (so 5deg offset stays same) or consult timing will doesnt change (so offset will increase)? I think that if consult reported timing can be adjusted to your goal (whatever map values are), your done....I did it like this, Im just living with this offset and adjusted map values so I can reach my goal, in my case its 20deg reported by consult....

[MIL-Tec]

Yep, 20 degs actual would be around there, but I'll adjust it some more at weekend with knock phones. Right now I want to stay in safe area and not risk anything. That's why I dont want to put 25 degrees on the map, if actual timing goes to 25 somehow, I'll probably have knocking and soon a nogood engine.

[raddy]

I get your point, all what I can say to this is that in my case its done like described for 4 years now, reported timing is still same as at the beginning....

[MIL-Tec]

Okay, ignition is now tuned for 98 octane and then I advanced 3 degrees more and then some RE85 to the tank. With 200km behind, it seems to work pretty nice. Not perfect but nice (AFR).
I was having pretyy coarse detonation because CAS was jumped somehow 5 degrees in more advance after installing nistune. Hope it works *knock on wood*

Here it is, what say you?

[raddy]

regarding incorrect CAS setting: did you mean that CAS was 5deg off all the time of the above testing and issue of timing interpolation was in reality timing pull becouse of knock detection (even in very low rpm???) and now after resetting CAS is consult timing same as map value? Or, there is still offset between consult and map timing with correctly adjusted CAS, so issue remain to interpolating? can you post also log?

[MIL-Tec]

Everything in nistune remained the same. Map vs consult is still 5deg off. I noticed knocking on very late advances. Problem was wrong setting of cas, about 2,5deg in cas/cam --> 5deg on crank. Checked idle timing with lamp and it was 20deg :O

[raddy]

so now you can say that for 100% there is no real knock, but timing offset (map vs consult) remain same?

[MIL-Tec]

Well not 100% but 99% because while tuning to 98 octane it did not have any knocking. And that is for full gas only, I think it needs more tuning at center top area of the map. I'm planning to just put pretty small advances on that area to be safe. Also, now with ethanol gas knocking is not detectable with knock phones.

What comes to ethanlol:
I had pretty frustrating times today when I tried to adjust cold enrichments and K value and injector latency. They just don't seem to save in to ECU. I had to tweak over and over again the same values for about 30-60 minutes to get them saved to Nistune board. Yesterday I drove a 200km trip but at that time made changes did not save to the board.
I think I finally found the solution, I had to do all thes steps in the following sequence to have it saved:

ECU downloaded maps: Save, Write to ECU, Burn to ECU. Now when I restarted Nistune program the settings were as I just saved them.

Reeeallly frustrating...

[Matt]

They just don't seem to save in to ECU. I had to tweak over and over again the same values for about 30-60 minutes to get them saved to Nistune board.

When you hit the burn button, whatever is stored in the ECU becomes permanent

If in doubt then perform the following:
1. Look at current values (eg latency, K etc)
2. Burn the changes to ECU
3. Power off ignition switch for at least 10 seconds and then back on
4. Select different main image (eg selection 2)
5. Sync maps from ECU to Nistune
6. Compare synced maps against previous maps. Check that none show up as 'blue' which means different

Every burn will save whats currently in the ECU from RAM to EEPROM for next power up

[PL]

If in doubt always sync NIStune > ECU and then Burn. Assuming you're happy with the tune you have in NIStune of course!

PL

[MIL-Tec]

If someone is interested, here is the whole story:
http://nismo.bilder.fi/kuvat/

Story begins from year 2008, owned from early 2007.